Texas Faith: Do we need a new national conversation about marriage?

Humanity is diverse, that's God's intentional creation. The male/ female ratio has always remained around 50/50 with +/- 2 points variation on either side. The world would never be 100% male or female, likewise the world would never be 100% Gay, it will be a natural 10-15% of the population. Mike Ghouse


Texas Faith: Do we need a new national conversation about marriage?

By Bill McKenzie / Editorial Columnist
Dallas Morning News, Published on February 5, 2012

Ten panelists contributed to this forum, to read the contributions from all the panelists, please visit - http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/2013/02/texas-faith-do-we-need-a-new-national-conversation-about-marriage.html/

Has the conversation about marriage reached a dead-end in our country, as Blankenhorn suggests? If it has, please explain what you would like this conversation to now include. If you think we don't need a new conversation, please explain.

MIKE GHOUSE, President, Foundation for Pluralism, Dallas, and Speaker on interfaith matters, diversity and pluralism

The conversation on marriage has just opened up, and we are far from reaching the dead-end. But until that time we will need two parallel societies. They will not be in conflict with each other, but each on its own path.

What is missing in the conversation is our untapped ability in understanding the wisdom of God. As humans we are disgustingly selfish, and grind on to the selective verses that suit our insecurities to force the weak (minority) into obedience, as if we gain something.

The conservatives among us, particularly those who are Christians and Muslim, are stuck in the dished-out versions of the Sodom and Gomorrah story. We need to follow Jesus in spirit, and follow the merciful and inclusive God of the Universe (Quran).

God has endowed us with free will. He let Adam make the mistake without slapping him for eating the forbidden fruit. Instead, he kicked us out, and gave us an opportunity to multiply and live out in a bigger world with free will. He wanted us to figure out living with each other without punishing the few, who opt not to multiply.

As a futurist of interfaith trends, I have been struggling to understand sin. I found guidance in Buddhist literature about sin from this analysis, which I read on ReligionFacts.com:

"'Sexual misconduct' has thus traditionally been interpreted to include actions like coercive sex, sexual harassment, child molestation and adultery. As homosexuality is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Buddha's sayings recorded in the Pali Canon (Tripitaka), most interpreters have taken this to mean that homosexuality should be evaluated in the same way as heterosexuality, in accordance with the following principles: I) Intention - Is the act motivated by love, generosity and understanding? And ii) consequential - does the act cause harm and regret (in oneself or others) or benefit and joy?"

As a pluralist, I draw upon different religious scriptures, and here is a corollary from Quran about carrying on a civil dialogue. "Respectfully, I do not practice what you practice, and you do not practice what I practice, so you live with your belief as I do with mine, as long as we understand our differences and not harm each other."

The dialogue must continue until we learn to respect the otherness of others and live in harmony. No one's belief should be thrust on the other. That kind of freedom is a hallmark of civil societies.
 …
The phobias that acknowledging and accepting the gay sexual orientation will cause more people to become gay is as ridiculous as saying eating Chicken will make you a Chicken. The sooner we accept this, the quicker we can put this fear behind and move on with our lives, instead of harassing and denigrating fellow humans. Thank God, I am blessed to be friends with all of God's creation including many gay and lesbian friends. The alarmist attitude will evaporate one day, why not junk it now? Indeed, it's a blessing to be free.
…..

References:

 New York Times piece on Blankenhorn. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us/in-shift-blankenhorn-forges-a-pro-marriage-coalition-for-all.html?_r=0

American Values, marriage a new conversation
http://www.americanvalues.org/marriage-a-new-conversation/index.php

Buddhism about Homosexuality
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/buddhism.htm

Quran about Civil Dialogue
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/buddhism.htm
 
. . . . . . . Mike Ghouse is a speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, peace, Islam, Israel, India, interfaith, and cohesion at work place and standing up for others as an activist. He is committed to building a Cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day at www.TheGhousediary.com. Mike has a strong presence on national and local TV, Radio and Print Media. He is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, and a commentator on national radio networks, he contributes weekly to the Texas Faith Column at Dallas Morning News, fortnightly at Huffington post, and several other periodicals across the world. His personal site www.MikeGhouse.net indexes everything you want to know about him.

Sikhs Genocides observation in Dallas

Request to fellow Indians: If you are not inclined to read the whole thing and then decide how you feel about it, please do not read the following piece. Also posted at DallasIndians@yahoogroups.com and http://MikeGhouseforIndia.blogspot.com

URL:: http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2012/10/sikhs-genocides-observation-in-dallas.html

Last week, I  posted an upcoming event "Remembrance and Reflection: 1984 Sikh Genocide (posted below)" at Dallas Indians, a 1800 member group in the Dallas area for all Indians. I am glad a few friends called in and sought clarifications. It is always good to inquire and find out before building up emotions against it. The event is on Saturday, November 3rd at Noon.  

Then I read a beautiful personal story by Kirpal Singh from Melbourne, who shared the story of stereotyping Muslims in Nigeria and alluded to bringing a closure to the Sikh Massacre in India. I have included that story below.

The humorous part of the story was, one of the callers was cursing Muslims that they do not understand free speech, and yet, he asked me not post events like this, he believed it was divisive.  Indeed on the surface it does sound like it, but when you read the entire note, you will find otherwise.

You might get away refusing to oblige your spouse or a child's request... or even compel them to obey you...but it builds resentment if not dealt with squarely, it puts a damper on the enthusiasm of the relationship and no one lives in peace. If there is a murder, child abuse or sexual abuse in the community, we cannot sit quite, we have to find a resolution so the victims can leave in peace, and justice is meted out to the abuser.

Taking the example to India - The Kashmiri Pandits, Dalits, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs have been treated unfairly and unjustly on occasions, especially when it comes to killing a large number of people. The wounds remain unhealed for the communities and every one lives with un-ease, discomfort and apprehension. Silence or Money compensation is not the way to repair the damage, but an acknowledgement is the way to go. An apology will heal the wounds for the entire society. We need to seek Mukti from the gnawing conscience, and no ones Karma will go unbalanced.

When Queen Elizabeth visited India a few years back, she apologized for the Jalianwala Bagh Massacre, that was the right thing to do and we welcomed it. There have been many more good examples of healing like that.

About six years ago a film was made by Memnosyne Foundation, "One source many paths" where I represented the Muslim community and 47 other people represented other faith traditions. Uma Mysoreaker, president of the Hindu Temple in New York represented the Hindu Community. The Hindus and the Native Americans shared their pain about the forced conversions by Muslims and Christians alike, while Muslims also have been a target of prejudice after 9/11. I apologized for the wrong doings done by Muslims kings like Aurangzeb and Ghaznavi and individuals like Bin Laden. 

The healing was done when a Native American offered a Bandana to be received as a closure, a Christian minister gracefully accepted it, .. every one remained silent and absorbed the moments, some of us cried, including me, it was indeed a relief. It is also an acknowledgement that we the people (living now) have nothing to do with what was done, and yet, we owed an apology as the wrong doing was committed in the name of the religion or the land we shared.

The Chapters on Pandits, Dalits, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs can be brought to closure by acknowledgment of the wrong doing, its not going to go away by hiding from it. Humility builds bridges, that is what every religion teaches; to be humble. It is wrong, and dead wrong to believe that we are all against each other, we are not, some of us are, but we need to work cohesively to make India a greater nation by being on a higher moral ground of shedding the arrogance or pretending that, we do not have a problem.

The Sikh Massacre is obviously not brought to the closure,  mass graves have been discovered and the identified remains have been given back to their families, but there are hundreds of kids, women and men missing from that period. An accounting needs to be done to bring a relief to families as to what happened to their loved ones. We are all in this together without blaming the past and to find solutions.

The bad guys are not Muslims, Sikhs, Christians or Hindus, the bad guys are those who went on a rampage and hurt fellow Indians be it in Delhi, Gujarat, Bihar or Orissa. No one should go Scot free,  an apology from them individual wrong doers, forgiveness from the victims or lawful action is in order to restart
 

STEREO TYPING

This is the most common form of ignorance that surfaces every minute of the day in our lives. Our freedom to think is lost when we stereotype people and fall in the ditch when we justify it. If we want others to treat as fairly, we have to do it too.

If I murder someone, it is my heine that needs to be hauled off to the jail and mete out the deserved punishment under the law and serve justice. Stereo typing in this instance would be to blame my race, parents, siblings, spouse, nationality or religion, it is not wise, is it?? Yet we do it and let others do it without even imploring them to think. What has India or Islam got to do with my criminal act?

Shame on you and I to allow the mind to believe that the murder by a black man allows us to gossip that blacks are criminals, and start justifying some creepy facts to suit our beliefs. Oh well, the educated ones are not… that is even wronger than the first statement…Are all white people ruthless and war mongers? Are Muslims terrorists? Jews will get you one way or the other?

Catch yourselves in your stereotyping, where you make judgments about a people

We reflect on Holocaust and genocides every year, and one of the element is stereotyping. Details about the VII Annual Reflections on Holocaust and Genocides at www.HolocaustandGenocides.com

Mike is a speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, interfaith, politics, foreign policy, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. He is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, commentator on national radio network, writes weekly at Dallas Morning News and bi monthly at Huffington post and several periodicals. His daily blog is www.TheGhousediary.com

TRUE MEANING OF GURBANI
On Oct 24, 2012, at 3:13 AM, kirpal singh kirpal2singh@ ..> wrote:

Dear All,

It was in Nigeria in mid 1980s, Dr. Iyengar, a colleague of mine in the Science Faculty of Ahmadu Bello University (ABU met with an accident in which a family of five while crossing a road outside the main Gate of ABU struck against his car while a speeding heavy truck was coming from the opposite side with full lights which blinded Dr. Iyengar who was driving with his wife in the car. As a result of impact two children died on the spot, mother, and two others were badly injured.The driver of the heavy truck fled away in the darkness. Dr. Iyengar stopped his car and while he and her wife were panicking a policeman appeared on the spot and he arranged injured and dead to be taken to the University hospital. The police arrested Dr. I and dropped his wife at their residence.

Next morning Mrs. Iyengar came to our house also on the university campus and told what had happened. I had known Dr. Iyengar as a polite and decent person who never consumed alcohol and a careful experienced driver. Certainly he had no intention to harm or kill any one. This was to happen but it created a mystery.

I had known a Sikh medical doctor (Dr. Sandhu) and Mr. Gowon, a businessman who was younger brother of Gen. Gowon who once ruled Nigeria. Dr. Sandhu and Mr. Gowon met the Nigerian Lady magistrate (who lived in their neighbourhood) and appraised her about the circumstances in which accident happened, in addition to the police report. Dr. Iyengar was released on bail but was not sure about his and his wife's security from the victims family members, who were Muslims..

As a courtesy, Dr. Iyengar wished to visit the other members of the victims family. But none of his close friends (north or south Indian Hindus) supported his idea and so none was willing to accompany him to the family who lived in a village near the university campus. Dr. Iyengar asked me and I told him that on the strength that you were not drunk driving and you had no enmity what so ever against the victims family, I am inclined to go with you to visit the victims family. My wife was terribly upset that as a turbaned Sikh I will become their target because of my conspicuous appearance. She went on to say that they might forget Dr. Iyengar but the victims family and their other relatives can go after you.

We had daily Parkash of Guru Granth Sahib (GGS) in our house and used to read the GGS and pray for a while every day. I told her that it was not Dr. Iyengar who wanted this accident but this was to happen - but why did it happen? We did not know the answer?

I advised Dr. Iyengar to take along some rice, kasawa, sugar, oil and tin fish for the aggrieved family. After enquiring we reached the right house in the Samaru village. Some members spotted us and the ushered us in to the house. Walking through several interconnected rooms we finally entered a room where the lady (lying) and two children were with bandaged legs and arms. We both were quite nervous that any thing could happen to us. As we finished exchange of greetings and paying our condolences, we were served a soft drink each.We were not sure whether to drink or not? But somehow I took a sip and Dr. Iyengar followed me.

We told the family that we were sorry for what had happened. The lady in crutches wasted no time and in a brave tone told us "it was Allah's Will that all this happened. We have no ill-will against Dr. Iyengar (pointing towards him) - it is Allah only who gives and takes away life". The next day was fixed for hearing in the court and she added that they have no intention to pursue any case against Dr. Iyengar.

On hearing this I had tears flowing in my eyes to learn of such a strong faith and devotion in Allah from an ordinary Muslim lady. I was also ashamed that even on daily reading of Gurbani I had not developed such a strong faith in Waheguru. The following verses from Sukhmanee Sahib sounded differently and clearly after that encounter:-

ਮਾਰੈ ਰਾਖੈ ਏਕੋ ਆਪਿ ॥ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕੈ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਾਥਿ ॥ (Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Sahib, GGS. 281-4).

Maarai Raakhai Eaeko Aap ||Maanukh Kai Kishh Naahee Haathh ||

मारै राखै एको आपि ॥मानुख कै किछु नाही हाथि ॥

The One Lord Himself destroys and also preserves.

Nothing at all is in the hands of mortal beings.

ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਖੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਪਰੋਇ ॥

This Kaa Hukam Boojh Sukh Hoe ||This Kaa Naam Rakh Kanth Paroe ||

तिस का हुकमु बूझि सुखु होइ ॥तिस का नामु रखु कंठि परोइ ॥

Understanding His Order, there is peace.

So take His Name, and wear it as your necklace.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਘਨੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥

Simar Simar Simar Prabh Soe ||Naanak Bighan N Laagai Koe ||1||

सिमरि सिमरि सिमरि प्रभु सोइ ॥नानक बिघनु न लागै कोइ ॥१॥

Remember, remember, remember God in meditation.

O Nanak, no obstacle shall stand in your way. ||1||

- This Muslim family taught me the meaning of Gurbani more than any Teeka or Gyani or Parcharak.

There was a change in my perception of Gurbani ever since - a great lesson from a Muslim Family for which I am grateful to them; and Dr. Iyengar for taking me along to witness such a blissful experience.

The court case lasted for four months and finally Dr. Iyengar was cleared.

I do believe that there are good Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Budhists and Sikhs in the wide world.

- In addition, I learnt the meaning of the expression," Dekh ke un-dith keeta", which is part of the Sikh daily supplication (Ardas.) It is one of the highest ideals by any standard.The Sikhs repeat in their daily supplication (Ardas) by admiring those who see or witness an evil being done to them yet they turn their attention away from that evil/unfortunate incident. The Gurbani teaches us:-

ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਦੂਸਰ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਣੈ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥(Raag Gaurhee Sukhmanee, M. 5. 276).
karan kaaran prabh eaek hai dhoosar naahee koe ||Naanak This Balihaaranai Jal Thhal Meheeal Soe ||1||

करण कारण प्रभु एकु है दूसर नाही कोइ ॥नानक तिसु बलिहारणै जलि थलि महीअलि सोइ ॥१॥.

God alone is the Doer of deeds - there is no other at all.

O Nanak, I am a sacrifice to the One, who pervades the waters, the lands, the sky and all space. ||1||

"Dekh ke undith keeta" - is a virtuous act though a very difficult one. Those who lost their loved ones in 1984, it is not easy to forget and brush aside their grief. However, we do remember those who are imbued with the spirit of forgiveness in our daily supplication (Ardas). I think it is time to give practical shape to our longing for fulfilment of "Dekh ke undith Keeta".

As Gursikh of Gurbani, we should be guided by the message of Sabad Guru. All that happened in 1984 was as per the Divine Hukam (Waheguru ordained).

In the light of the Gurbani then how should we treat the saga of June and November1984 (killing of thousands of innocent Sikhs) in which various parties (sikh leadership, government of the day and some hooligans) should share blame in any rational terms? It has both legal and spiritual dimensions. The legal part is for the security forces and law enforcement agencies to handle, whereas the spiritual side belongs to all of us who profess Hindiism or Sikhism.

I think that the well meaning Sikhs and Hindus can bring about reconciliation between the two communities a lot better than politicians who have failed to do so far.

Although it is very hard for the families of those who lost their beloved ones to come to grip with the situation yet spiritually speaking the agrieved parties shoud forgive the perpetrators of such henious crimes to invite spiritual strength as a solace.

I would suggest that just like Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself went to Sajjan Tugh, Haridwar and Kabba etc to show people the right paths; Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Teg Bhadur ji sacrificed their lives for upholding unity and spiritual values, it is time to say a collective Ardas to Waheguru for the forgiveness of all those involved in killing of fellow human-beings. This will be in keeping with the highest Ideal and Spirit of Sikhi.

An Ardas could be suitably worded somethink like the following and publised in media in Indian Dailies from Shiromani Gurduara Parbhandhak Committee, Amritsar and Delhi Sikh Gurduara Management Committee, Delhi and Haryana Gurduara Management Committee etc :-

"May Waheguru forgive all those who somehow lost their sanity and became instrumental in killing of innocent people in 1984. Please give a sense of direction to those who became part of such criminal act and grant peace to them and their near and dear ones who have been suffering since and help restore sense of unity among fellow human-beings."

ਜਬ ਧਾਰੈ ਕੋਊ ਬੈਰੀ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ (Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, GGS. 278-17).

Jab Dhhaarai Kooo Bairee Meeth ||Thab Lag Nihachal Naahee Cheeth ||

जब धारै कोऊ बैरी मीतु ॥तब लगु निहचलु नाही चीतु ॥

As long as he considers one an enemy, and another a friend, His/her mind shall not come to rest.

I do hope such an initiave will bring solace to both the Communities in keeping with the message of true spirit of the Sanatan Dharma and Sikhi alike, which stand for FORGIVENESS.

"It is well known that forgiveness removes unhealthy emotions that would otherwise cause harm & creates emotions with a wholesome effect."

The various Hindu Organizations can also come up with some suitable gestures towards the Sikhs in general upholding their ancient Spiritual traditions of peace and reconciliation.

With best wishes.

Kirpal Singh

New Zealand

----------------------

October 28, 2012

THE VII ANNUAL REFLECTIONS ON HOLOCAUST AND GENOCIDES WILL HIGHLIGHT THE SIKH MASSACRE AND THE UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

Remembrance and Reflection: 1984 Sikh Genocide

Dear Friends and Neighbors,

The DFW Sikh American Community extends its invitation to you for our event "Remembrance and Reflection: 1984 Sikh Genocide". We aspire to share the tragedy which unfolded and provide recognition to an event which has withered away in the annals of history. We seek to provide conversation and engage with our audience to ensure dark moments such as these never occur again and that justice prevails. As the great Martin Luther King stated, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

We urge and request everyone to attend

When: Saturday, November 3, 2012 from 12 PM – 1 PM Where: Gurdwara Sikh Sangat 1400 West Euless Blvd. Euless, TX 76040

All our educators, our law enforcement officials, our elected officials, people of faith and in short all our fellow Americans are humbly requested to take advantage of this opportunity. We will highlight and recognize the fundamental principles of this great nation which was on prominent display during and in the aftermath of the Wisconsin massacre of how a nation is to respond and respect its citizens. This fundamental principle must be brought to the forefront for all to appreciate and fathom.

Sikh Americans have been an integral and constructive part of the DFW community for over 50 years and we invite you to share in our experiences and a history which permeates within all of us.

The institution of langar (community kitchen) will be in full effect in which everyone is requested to partake and have a delicious vegetarian meal. So please come by and ask your questions, eat and drink some food, or just engage with your neighbors.

For any questions or comments please contact: 1. Gurvinder Singh 469.222.6288 gurvinder.singh@unitedsikhs.org 2. Manmohan Singh 469.733.5190 m.singh.180@gmail.com 3. Manpreet Singh 972-415-7897 kingmani15@yahoo.com 4. Pritpal Singh 214-505-6375 pritpaltx@yahoo.com

We will be honored and look forward to your presence.

  

Israel Palestine commitment, part 2 of 3

Israel's security and justice to the Palestinians are directly proportional to each other. Hundred percent security for Israel comes with 100 percent justice to the Palestinians. A majority of people in the conflict understand this, but the leadership runs aground with short sighted false perceptions.

Huffington post on Israel Palestine solutions : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/commitment-to-israelpales_b_1263793.html

- - - - -
Mike Ghouse is a writer, thinker and a speaker on pluralism, politics, Islam, peace and building a cohesive America, links to details at www.MikeGhouse.net.

TEXAS FAITH: When the pew and the pulpit don't see eye-to-eye?

There is a difference between the pew and the pulpit on this matter. Of course, that is not the first time a divide has been seen between the leaders of a religious tradition and those who adhere to that faith. What I would like to hear from you all this week is how such a divide gets resolved in your tradition. I recognize that sometimes they aren't resolved, but I would like you to elaborate upon this question.

Indeed, there is a great difference between the pew and the pulpit and most certainly a few issues get resolved and a few go to the holding pen to be unleashed whenever the opportunity arises to get even.

Continued

- - - - -

Mike Ghouse is a writer, thinker and a speaker on pluralism, politics, Islam, peace and building a cohesive America, links to details at www.MikeGhouse.net. 

Do Jews, Christians and Muslims better understand each other since 9/11?

TEXAS FAITH: Do Jews, Christians and Muslims better understand each other since 9/11?

Abstract: Jews need sincerity and not duplicity. Native Americans need an apology and there is a good amount of phobia embedded in Hindus about conversions. We believe in Jesus as a Prophet and not as a son of God. Unless we deal with tough issues about our differences, we will continue to fake being nice to each other and brood with ill-will within. There is indeed improved understanding among faiths since 9/11. But there also is deepening suspicion among them. One is spiritually motivated and the other is political. Please note, most of my writings are inclusive of all theist and atheists traditions, we all inhabit the earth and we need to figure how best to co-exist cohesively.

# # #

Since September 11, 2001, many conversations have taken place among Muslims, Jews and Christians. There are official interfaith conversations occurring all over the globe, where participants dig into each other's texts. And numerous personal dialogues have been established over the last decade. Many of us have learned more about the three Abrahamic faiths since September 11, 2001 than perhaps we knew before that day.

But here's this week's question, which is simple in its wording but not necessarily simple to answer: Do followers of the three Abrahamic faiths really understand each other better since 9/11?

Eight Texas Faith Panelists including Mike Ghouse weighs in at: http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/texas-faith-do-jews-christians.html

MIKE GHOUSE, President, Foundation for Pluralism, Dallas

There is indeed improved understanding among faiths since 9/11. But there also is deepening suspicion among them. One is spiritually motivated and the other is political.

We were better off when we knew very little about each other. But as we faced the hostage crisis in 1979, the evangelical foray into politics, the Baptist convention on harvesting poor souls and finally 9/11, religion moved on to center stage. It will get better when we know more about each other.

On September 11, 2001, I was on the radio in Dallas attempting to make sense out of the chaos of the day and pave the way for relevant actions. Interfaith-faith prayers, blood donation and fundraising for the men and women in uniform were all in place by evening. The fog was clearing up. Osama bin Laden was the bad guy and Muslim-Americans had nothing to do with his actions, nor did they authorize him to terrorize any one. Indeed, he placed a wedge between Americans that still needs to be undone.

Atheists, Baha'i, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Jews, Native Americans, Pagans, Sikhs, Wicca and Zoroastrians along with area city mayors, FBI, police and fire chiefs and community leaders graced the first interfaith event in Frisco. Out of which a new tradition evolved called Unity Day. It continues year after year.

But while we are trying to know more about each other, more needs to be done. Here are a few examples;

* Mosques in Dallas/ Fort Worth area opened their doors right after the 9/11 incident. As Christians walked in, they were naively welcomed by yet-to-be trained volunteers who said, "We believe in Jesus as a Prophet and not as a son of God." However, the volunteers were trained to welcome without conflict the very next week.

Of course, back in the 8th Century, a Syrian bishop had declared that Islam was a false religion. That declaration has remained in the psyche of a few Christians forever.

Pastor Robert Jeffress of the First Baptist Church of Dallas reiterated the statement and added, "Quran is a false book written by a false prophet." He was asked to prove it but failed.

There are several verses in Quraan that are mistranslated for political gains. Steve Blow in Dallas Morning News quoted me, "In the Middle Ages, European leaders commissioned a hostile Quran translation to foster warfare against Muslim invaders. Later, Muslim leaders produced another translation to inflame Muslims against Christians and Jews."

One such difficult passage is "Kill the infidels wherever you find them." Ten such propaganda verses were read to separate the myths from reality. They were not read by Muslim clergy, but by Baptist, Mormon, Protestant, Catholic, Unitarian, Methodist, New Age, Unificationists, Sikhs, Hindu and others at the Quraan Conference

*Shamelessly, anti-Semitism continues to operate under the radar. The anti-circumcision bills in San Francisco and Santa Monica were irksome to some, but frightening to others. Indeed, there are still a few Christians out there who cannot shake off what Fred Phelps was demonstrating with reckless posters such as "Christ Killers."

The Judeo-Christian phrase was thrown around in the 40's to build relationships between Jews and Christians. A whole industry of opportunists was born from it. The support for Jews by Billy Graham, Richard Nixon, Pat Robertson, John Hagee, Glenn Beck and other chest thumpers have ulterior motives. They want to cash in on the name of Israel and perhaps convert them. Jews need sincerity and not duplicity to feel genuinely secure.

*Native Americans need an apology for the destruction of their religion and there is a good amount of phobia embedded in Hindus about conversions. Some of them feel that Governors Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal made it in politics because they converted to Christianity.

*The spiritual balance in the community needs to be restored through observing and following the Golden Rule, which is treat others as you would like others to treat you. Although we have failed in the past, such as when the city of Plano rejected a permit to build a Hindu temple in the early 80's and Richardson did not permit a Muslim school to open there in the mid-1990s, we still have come a long way. Thank God, those are now history and the public in the metroplex welcomes diversity.

* Interfaith meetings are still social gatherings. Leaders from smaller groups are invited as tokens rather than to genuinely get to know each other. Unless we deal with tough issues about differences, we will continue to fake being nice to each other and brood with ill-will within. There is plenty of room for honesty to grow and mature.

If we can learn to respect the otherness of other people and accept the God-given uniqueness of each one of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. One of these days we will get there. Meanwhile, I am pleased to invite you to the 7th Annual 9/11 Memorial, the Unity Day USA on Sunday September 11 at 5:00 PM at the Unity Church of Dallas on Forest Lane. Details are at www.UnitydayUSA.com

----

References:
Steve Blow – Dallas Morning News: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/columnists/steve-blow/20100919-In-defense-of-Islam-pursuing-9397.ece

----

List of difficult passages: http://quraan-today.blogspot.com/2010/12/difficult-passages-in-quraan.html

----
Quraan Conference program sequence: http://quraanconference.blogspot.com/2010/12/quraan-conference-program-sequence.html

-----

Mike Ghouse is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day to the media and the public. He is a speaker thinker and a writer on the topics of pluralism, cohesive societies, Politics, Islam, interfaith, India and Peace. Over a thousand articles have been published on the topics and two of his books are poised to be released on Pluralism and Islam. Mike's work is reflected in 4 website's and 27 Blogs indexed at http://www.mikeghouse.net/ and you can find all of his current articles at www.TheGhousediary.com

Trialogue with Jews, Christians and Muslims

Friday to Sunday, Jan 22-24
Dallas, Texas
A trialogue with Christians, Jews and Muslims.

I attended the first meeting at Temple Shalom and I am pleased to see this development in our Metroplex. The Pluralism bug is catching on. Welcome to the new decade of pluralism, inclusiveness and co-existence. My comments follow the article - Mike Ghouse

Keller pastor's multifaith initiative includes 'trialogue' with Muslims, Jews

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/012210dnmetinterfaith.3dfad3e.html
11:00 PM CST on Thursday, January 21, 2010

By SAM HODGES / The Dallas Morning News
samhodges@dallasnews.com

For some evangelical pastors, pushing the envelope means preaching without a tie, or having the congregation sing praise music instead of hymns.

But the Rev. Bob Roberts Jr., pastor of 3,000-member NorthWood Church in Keller, has befriended Vietnamese communists, Afghan Muslims and even liberal Christians in a fast-paced, far-flung ministry that emphasizes peace-making and service as well as evangelism.

One of his sayings: "We serve not to convert but because we are converted. We serve because Christ has changed us and made us servants to people who are lost and hurting."

This weekend, Roberts is stepping out a bit more, but close to home. He has enlisted Rabbi Jeremy Schneider of Dallas' Temple Shalom and Imam Zia Sheikh of the Islamic Center of Irving for a "trialogue" with his congregation and theirs.

Members of NorthWood and the mosque will attend the regular worship service tonight at Temple Shalom. On Saturday afternoon, the Christians and Jews will visit the mosque. Finally, on Sunday morning, the Jews and Muslims will attend NorthWood for worship.

After each gathering, the three clergymen will answer questions about the differences and similarities of their faiths.

"The unusual aspect of this is that there's an evangelical who is the leader and really the animating force," said Eboo Patel, executive director of the Chicago-based Interfaith Youth Core. "It's more often a mainline Protestant who would be the Christian component."

Patel, a Muslim, is not only a friend and fan of Roberts. He wrote the forward to Roberts' forthcoming book, praising the pastor as a bridge-builder who promotes understanding of and respect for other faiths.

That's definitely the mission for this weekend's gatherings, Roberts confirmed. He prefers "multifaith" to "interfaith" as a descriptive term, believing that the latter suggests a watering-down of doctrine.

"The basis of coming together is not to minimize our beliefs but to hold onto our beliefs and make clear our beliefs," he said. "But also it's to say that the best of our beliefs calls us to get along with one another."


Known for innovation

Roberts, 51, grew up in East Texas, the son of a Southern Baptist pastor, and graduated from Baylor University and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

As a young pastor, Roberts quickly earned a reputation for innovation, founding NorthWood in 1985 and using its growing size and resources to start other churches. Like a lot of baby boomer pastors, Roberts has steered clear of denominational politics, and he describes NorthWood as loosely affiliated with Baptist groups.

In the mid-1990s, NorthWood began making mission trips to Vietnam, at the suggestion of a church member who was a Vietnam veteran. Since then, the church has sent teams there repeatedly to do medical, educational and orphanage-related work.

Roberts himself has been more than 20 times, while also having the church host Vietnamese government delegations and exchange students.

After 9/11, Roberts decided Christians need to show an example of service in Muslim countries, and began traveling to Afghanistan, the Palestinian territories and other areas, helping churches get a foothold for the kind of work NorthWood was doing in Vietnam.

Roberts believes in "going in the front door" and abiding by whatever restrictions a host country places on evangelism – but sharing Christian faith wherever and whenever allowed.

His travels have given him an education in Middle East politics and enough standing to be included in high-level, peace-seeking meetings in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere, as a rare evangelical representative.

Roberts, whose heroes include Mahatma Gandhi and the Methodist missionary E. Stanley Jones, said this weekend's effort grew from his recognition that the Dallas area had become much more multicultural, and that he hadn't reached out enough locally to other faiths.

His inquiries about partners led him to Sheikh and Schneider. They began meeting a few months ago and have become friends.

"He is a great, down-to-earth guy, and someone anyone would love to have over for coffee," Sheikh said of Roberts.

Schneider, a young associate rabbi at Temple Shalom who has earned a national reputation for his leadership in Jewish-Muslim relations, described Roberts as "a colleague and brother who is as inspired and energetic and committed to this work as I am."


'At the forefront'

Roberts said about 250 members of his congregation have signed up to visit the temple and mosque. Support at NorthWood for this and other of Roberts' initiatives is "overwhelming," said church leadership council member Rusty Mayeux.

"Obviously, people have questions, and questions are good because that's where we start to break down walls," he said.

Roberts inevitably gets asked about the New Testament verse in which Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"I believe what the Scripture says," Roberts said. "Here's what I don't know: I don't know every single thing God is going to do. Eternity is in the hands of God."

He added: "If we as evangelicals really believe Jesus is the way, we ought to be at the forefront of building relations." \

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Comments (2)
Posted by MikeGhouse less than one minute ago



It is time to plant the seeds for a new paradigm and embark on bold initiatives to do our share of repairing the world. The faith leaders have joined together and embolden our commitment to co-existence and well being of every human being.

The change is coming; the new paradigm is in the making, moving away from exclusive to getting closer to inclusive societies. In our life time collective blame on religions will become a thing of the past and individuals will be held responsible for their acts and not their family, neighborhood, community, nation or their religion. It is a sure way to find justice, as religions are intangibles that cannot be punished or hung and justice never happens and societal balance is seldom achieved.

To cap off this weekend of interfaith activity, we have a beautiful event on Sunday, The Reflections on Holocaust and Genocides. This is an educational program, where 7 speakers will reflect on 7 topics for 7 minutes each along with contributing a few simple things that you and I can do to prevent such tragedies. The topics range from the Holocaust to Genocides, massacres and tragedies. It is a purposeful event to learn, acknowledge and reflect upon the terrible things that we humans have inflicted upon each other.

This is a humanitarian event on Sunday, Jan 24 at Center for Spiritual living on Spring Valley Road in Dallas at 5:00 PM, it is free and all are welcome.

Mike Ghouse
www.HolocaustandGenocides.com
~~~~

Spitting on Christians in Jerusalem

Article from a Jewish daily following my commentary.

Judging from the title, I hope you did not jump to the conclusion, that Muslims are the ones spitting on Christians. In this case the culprits are extremists from a different tradition. As an Indian, it caught my attention; it is our culture to express disgust by spitting. There was a guy in my town who had an incestual relationship with his daughter, and he shamelessly claimed that she was his property. Every one who passed in front of his house spat on his door.

There are two issues here that we need to face: Stereo typing and fanaticism about God.
Link to this article: http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/01/spitting-on-christians-in-jerusalem.html

Stereotyping is our inability to discern the difference between individuals and groups; it expresses one's loss of reasoning and eagerness to blame. Blaming is not going to free one from the anguish, in fact it reinforces it.

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and others are animals first, religious next. When we act evil, it is not religiously inspired, it is motivated by fear or phobias, and the animal in us finds it convenient to blame religion for our bad ass behavior. It is a hard thought to swallow, but when you start thinking and reasoning; you may see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Fanaticism is human, however the fanaticism about the idea of one God and revulsion against Idolatry are perhaps misunderstood by a few Jews and a few Muslims. I hope we can focus on oneness of diverse universe, oneness of diverse images of God, rather than the integer one. If you are not a Jew or Muslim, don't laugh and draw conclusions, you have the same perecent of intolerant people amongst you - i.e., Less than 1/10th of 1% of your or any group.

We have to come to terms with ourselves, what difference does it make if one believes in one God, no God or many Gods? How are you affected? Why do you want to push your belief on others, without giving them the same chance on you? Let them believe in what they believe. What is the need that others have to believe the same as you do?

Our Rabbis, Imams, Pastors, Pundits and Shamans have to speak out against prejudice and stereo typing and the sources of conflicts. We all have to figure out how to co-exist with our differences, the differences are God given and we have to respect that.

If you see a bad thing, please focus your blame on the person and not his parents, culture, religion or nation. That would be dumb to bark at the wrong tree.

We are resuming our monthly workshops on the wisdom of religions, every beautiful religion from February, if you have a serious interest to start the Pluralism work in your own town, we will be happy to assist you. None of our material is copyrighted, and we don't need any credit, just go out and help people enjoy their lives by removing biases and misunderstanding and help people transform from "me, me and me" to "we, we and us" attitudes. It brings goodeness to everyone at the end, that is what pluralism is all about.

Mike Ghouse is a thinker, writer speaker and an activist of pluralism, interfaith, co-existence, peace, Islam and India. He is a frequent guest at the TV, radio and print media offering pluralistic solutions to issues of the day. His websites and Blogs are listed on http://www.mikeghouse.net/ & http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/

Spitting on Christians in Jerusalem draws rabbinic rebuke
By Ben Harris · January 17, 2010
http://jta.org/news/article/2010/01/17/1010205/spitting-on-christians-in-jerusalem-raises-eyebrows

From his ceramics shop in Jerusalem's Old City, Garo Sandouri has a sweeping view of the spot where many Armenian-Jewish altercations have occurred. (Ben Harris) JERUSALEM (JTA) -- From his ceramics gallery along Armenian Patriarchate Road, Garo Sandrouni has a sweeping view of one of the Old City of Jerusalem's longest thoroughfares, stretching from Jaffa Gate deep into the Jewish Quarter.

Jewish worshipers heading to and from the Western Wall jostle for space along the narrow passage with Armenian priests and seminarians, and Sandrouni says about once a week he finds himself breaking up fights between them.

Typically the skirmishes begin when a young yeshiva student spits on or near a group of teenage seminarians, who occasionally respond by beating up their attacker. Several years ago, a young religious man pulled a gun when Sandrouni moved to intervene in a fight.

"Most of the incidents that happen, unfortunately, they happen in front of my store," said Sandrouni, who more than once has come to the aid of a yeshiva student bloodied after a run-in with a group of seminarians."Almost everybody, after the fight, they apologized," Sandrouni said. "They say, 'We are sorry. We didn't know that their reaction would be so strong.' "

Attacks on Christian clergyman in Jerusalem are not a new phenomenon, and may result from an extreme interpretation of the Bible's injunction to "abhor" idol worshipers.

But several people familiar with the issue say the attacks recently have reached epidemic proportions -- or at least enough that government officials and Orthodox rabbinic figures have begun to take notice.

A recent meeting between Foreign Ministry officials, the Jerusalem municipality and fervently Orthodox, or haredi, leaders resulted in a statement by Beth Din Tzedek, a haredi rabbinic tribunal, denouncing the phenomenon. In a sign of the ministry's concern over the issue, both the meeting and the statement were publicized on the Web site of Israel's diplomatic mission to the Vatican.

"Besides desecrating the Holy Name, which in itself represents a very grave sin, provoking gentiles is, according to our sages -- blessed be their holy and righteous memory -- forbidden and is liable to bring tragic consequences upon our own community, may God have mercy," said the statement.

The incident that appears to have gotten the ministry's attention occurred last September, when a pair of teenage Armenian seminarians reportedly fought with a young yeshiva student who spit on them. Police intervened, arrested the seminarians and referred the matter to the Interior Ministry.

According to George Hintlian, a spokesman for the Armenian community in Jerusalem, the seminarians are now facing deportation -- a decision the Armenians have officially protested. Carrying out the order would require the police to seize the boys from their seminary in the Old City, Hintlian said, which likely would result in a public relations disaster.

"It won't happen easily," Hintlian said. "They'll think twice."

Christian leaders stress that the problem is not one of Christian-Jewish relations in Israel. Most Israelis, they say, are peaceful and welcoming. In an interview with several Armenian Jerusalemites, they emphasized repeatedly that their relations with the largely religious community in the Old City's Jewish Quarter are normal.

The assaults, according to George Hintlian, a spokesman for the Armenian community in Jerusalem, are carried out by people from the outside -- visitors to Jerusalem from other towns, and even from abroad.

Though they may bear the brunt of the phenomenon, given the proximity of the Armenian and Jewish quarters, cases of spitting are confined neither to Armenian clergy nor the Old City.

Athanasius Macora, a Texas-born Franciscan friar who lives in western Jerusalem, frequently has been the target of spitting during his nearly two decades residing in the Israeli capital.

Macora, whose brown habit easily identifies him as a Christian clergyman, says that while he has not endured any spitting incidents recently, recollections of past incidents started flowing over the course of 30-minute interview.

In a sitting room at Terra Sancta College, where he is the superior, Macora recalled the blond-haired man who spit at him on Agron Street, not far from the U.S. Consulate. Another time, walking with an Armenian priest in the same area, a man in a car opened his window to let the spittle fly. Once it was a group of yeshiva students in the Old City, another time a young girl.

Five years ago, in what many say is the worst incident on record, a crucifix hanging from the neck of the Armenian archbishop, Nourhan Manougian, was broken in the course of an altercation with a yeshiva student who had spit on him.

Sometimes the assailants are clad in distinctive haredi garb; other times the attackers are wearing the knitted yarmulkes of the national religious camp. In almost all cases, though, they are young religious men.

A Franciscan church just outside the Old City walls was vandalized recently with anti-Christian graffiti, Macora said.

"I think it's just a small group of people who are hostile, and a very small group of people," Macora said. "If I go to offices or other places, a lot of people are very friendly."

Meanwhile, the Beth Din Tzedek statement, and an earlier one from Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger, have impressed the Christians and raised hopes that the spitting may soon end.

"We hope that this problem will be solved one day," Sandrouni said, "for the sake of mutual coexistence."

Ben Harris is a staff writer for JTA who covers American Jewish life and is author of The Wandering Jew blog (blogs.JTA.org/wanderingjew).

You are welcome to post your comments at: http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/01/spitting-on-christians-in-jerusalem.html#comments
~~~

3000 Muslims pray at Capitol Hill

3000 Muslims pray at Capitol Hill
The following note was posted at Washington Post.

As a Muslim, I am pleased with the demonstration of Unity and solidarity with America; however, I found some of the comments to be gratuitous.

One of the Imams in the video wearing the Arab traditional dress invites people to prayers,( links in the article below) it was indeed beautiful, but when he suggests to "lay your idols down and come to pray" was offensive to those who worship the creator in the form of Icons, which he called Idols. The act of denigrating Idol worship reduces Islam to be a faith based on absence of Idols. He knows Islam's existence is not dependent on vilifying other faiths and the call was un-neccessary, most likely the Imam did not realize that it was inflammatory to others who share the city, state, nation and the world with him.

Thank God, the majority of preachers respect and honor divinity of other faiths as they honor their own. A few, just a few preachers among Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and others simply have no regard, how the statements they make don't create goodwill.

You find bigots in your faith as well, they are right there and you know them. The Christians standing and shouting 'repent' and asking people to convert to Christianity also cheapens the teachings of Jesus. Jesus would not have approved their act; you win people by showing your goodness, if they had served the Muslims with Halal refreshments, water and helping with parking, they would have earned the good will for future harvesting of the souls.

Religion is not about reciting Mantras and doing rituals, ultimately it is about becoming a good human being. When Jesus said follow me, Krishna says surrender to me, Allah says submit to my will, they are are asking one to be a good human being like the good God who loves and cares about every one of his creation.

Some of these unspiritual religious men are brainwashed with the idea of conversion. It is time we do our individual and group renaissance - and evaluate the value of conversion. Are we open to investigate if Jesus or Mohammad really wanted people to become Christians or Muslims politically numberwise or they wanted the world to be a better place with better humans. Which route is easire to achieve and sustainable with least conflcits?

We scream at the extremists that they cannot think, are we?

Mike Ghouse

# # #

At Capitol, a Day of Muslim Prayer and Unity

3,000 Gather to Combat Fear and 'Do the Work of Allah' Amid Christian Protests
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/25/AR2009092502183.html

# # #

At Capitol, a Day of Muslim Prayer and Unity

3,000 Gather to Combat Fear and 'Do the Work of Allah' Amid Christian Protests

By Jacqueline L. Salmon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 26, 2009

Nearly 3,000 people gathered on the west lawn of the Capitol on Friday for a mass Muslim prayer service that was part religion and part pep rally for the beleaguered U.S. Muslim community.

As faint shouts of "Repent!" from Christian protesters floated across the gathering, dozens of long rows of men in robes and white knit caps and women in head coverings prostrated themselves to God, gave praise and listened to sermons as part of the congregational prayer that occurs about noon Fridays.

"Stop being so scared!" thundered Imam Abdul Malik of New York. "You ain't done nothing wrong. Just do the work of Allah, and believe."

The service comes as the Muslim community has been rocked by verbal attacks from conservative Christians that have grown stronger since the election of President Obama and by the recent arrests in a terrorism investigation involving several Muslim men, including an imam.
"We wanted to bring people out to show you don't need to fear America," said Imam Ali Jaaber of Dar-ul-Islam mosque in Elizabeth N.J., the service's main organizer. At the same time, he said, he wanted to remind non-Muslims that "we are decent Muslims. We work; we pay taxes. We are Muslims who truly love this country."

Across the street from the service, Christian protesters gathered with banners, crosses and anti-Islamic messages. One group, which stood next to a 10-foot-tall wooden cross and two giant wooden tablets depicting the Ten Commandments, was led by the Rev. Flip Benham of Concord, N.C.

"I would suggest you convert to Christ!" Benham shouted over a megaphone. Islam "forces its dogma down your throat." A few Christian protesters gathered at the rear of the Muslim crowd, holding Bibles and praying.

At one point, organizers asked them to tone it down.

"We would never come to a prayer meeting that you have to make a disturbance," Hamad Chebli, imam of the Islamic Society of Central Jersey, said from the lectern. "Please show us some respect. This is a sacred moment. Just as your Sunday is sacred, our Friday is sacred."

The noise from protesters faded somewhat during the final portion of the service, which lasted nearly two hours.

Organizers said this month that they hoped to draw about 50,000 people from mosques across the country for the gathering, billed as a day of unity for the nation's Muslims. But it failed to attract the support of national Islamic organizations and drew only a fraction of that number. Some people were frightened off by the conservative Christian attacks, said Hassen Abdellah, president of Dar-ul-Islam.

Nonetheless, organizers said they were happy with the turnout.

Abdellah had become the focus of criticism in recent days because he was part of the legal team that represented one of the men convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Kia Campbell, a homemaker from Durham, N.C., who came with several members of her family, said they were concerned about their safety.

"It wasn't going to keep us from coming," she said. "But it wasn't that we didn't feel cautious."

Takoma Park engineer Mohammed-Amin AbaBiya said he was happy to be at a "historical" event.

"This shows that America is one, that religion is one," he said, beaming, after the gathering ended and people began to stream off the lawn. "It shows solidarity and brotherhood. In the future, we are going to come more often, I hope."

#

Ban on Atheists

http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2008/08/ban-on-atheists.html

Council ban on atheist websites

How insecure is the council? Are they afraid that by looking at Atheists sites, one would give up his or her faith? If so, let them.

If the council can produce a letter from God, signed by God himself (herself or itself) tellilng the council to ban the atheist, I would accept the letter. God will not do such a thing, neither God will sign a letter behind any one's back.

Every one of us is an atheist at one moments of the life or the other. Mother Teressa was the courageous one to admit. Belief in God also producues disbeleif, one has to figure out what works for him or her.

If these fascist believe that Atheism equates immorality, they are wrong. Morality is a product of the society, either stamped by God through the religious texts or simply the practice to survieve.

God has created every soul and we need to honor his space both spritual and physical. Being an Atheist is not a crime, as much as being a Chritian, Hindu, Muslim, Bahai, Buddhist, Jew, Wicca, Sikh, Shinot, Zoroastrian, Hope, Aztec, Toltec, Zulu is not a crime. Crime is when one murders the other, invades the space of other, robs the belongings of others and that must be punished by the civil understandings of the society.

As a Muslim, I protests this ruling. Every one has the exact same right for space in this cosmos.

Mike Ghouse


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7530519.stm

A city council has blocked its staff from looking at websites about atheism.
Lawyers at the National Secular Society said the move by Birmingham City Council was "discriminatory" and they would consider legal action.

The rules also ban sites that promote witchcraft, the paranormal, sexual deviancy and criminal activity.

The city council declined to comment on the possible legal action, but said the new system helped make it easier for managers to monitor staff web access.
'Very strong case'

The authority's Bluecoat WebFilter computer system allows staff to look at websites relating to Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and other religions but blocks sites to do with "witchcraft or Satanism" and "occult practices, atheistic views, voodoo rituals or any other form of mysticism".
Under the Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Regulations 2003, it is unlawful to discriminate against workers because of their religion or belief, which includes atheism.
National Secular Society president Terry Sanderson said the city council's rules also discriminated against people who practise witchcraft, which is also classed as a legitimate belief.
We feel very strongly that people who don't believe should not be denied the access that people who do believe have got

Terry Sanderson, National Secular Society

He said the society would initially contact the council and ask for the policy to be changed, and otherwise pursue legal action.

He said he believed he would have a "very strong case".
Mr Sanderson said: "It is discriminatory not only against atheists but they also are banning access to sites to do with witchcraft.

"Witchcraft these days is called Wicca, which is an actual legitimate and recognised religion.
"We feel very strongly that people who don't believe should not be denied the access that people who do believe have got."

He added that some opinion polls said that up to 25% of the UK population now considered themselves atheist.

A city council statement said the authority had a "long-standing internet usage policy for staff".
It added: "We are currently implementing new internet monitoring software to make the control of internet access easier to manage.

"The aim of this is to provide greater control for individual line managers to monitor internet usage, and for departments, such as trading standards and child protection, to gain access, if needed, to certain sites for business reasons."

------------------------------
'Respect atheists', says cardinal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7390941.stm
The Archbishop of Westminster has urged Christians to treat atheists and agnostics with "deep esteem".

Believers may be partly responsible for the decline in faith by losing sense of the mystery and treating God as a "fact in the world", he said in a lecture.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor called for more understanding and appreciation between believers and non-believers.

But the leader of Roman Catholics in England and Wales said that Britain must not become "a God-free zone".

The cardinal's lecture at Westminster Cathedral comes after a spate of public clashes over issues such as stem-cell research, gay adoption and faith schools.
Mystery of God

He expressed concern about the increasing unpopularity of the Christian voice in public life, saying: "Our life together in Britain cannot be a God-free zone and we must not allow Britain to become a world devoid of religious faith and its powerful contribution to the common good."
Later, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme why he thought it was dangerous to be governed by reason alone.

He said saying that "supposedly faithless societies" ruled only by reason were like those created by Hitler and Stalin, ripe for "terror and oppression".
Proper talk about God is always difficult, always tentative.

Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor

Last year, Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor complained of a "new secularist intolerance of religion" and the state's "increasing acceptance" of anti-religious views.
To stem this tide, he said Christians must understand they have something in common with those who do not believe.

God is not a "fact in the world" as though God could be treated as "one thing among other things to be empirically investigated" and affirmed or denied on the "basis of observation", said Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor.

"If Christians really believed in the mystery of God, we would realise that proper talk about God is always difficult, always tentative.

"I want to encourage people of faith to regard those without faith with deep esteem because the hidden God is active in their lives as well as in the lives of those who believe." There's absolutely no reason to take seriously someone who says, 'I believe it because I believe it'.

Richard Dawkins, scientist
'Imaginary friend'
But Richard Dawkins, scientist, staunch atheist and author of books including The God Delusion, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the cardinal's comments carried no weight.
Referring to God as an "imaginary friend", Mr Dawkins said: "When talking to a politician you would demand proof for what they say, but suddenly when talking to a clergyman you don't have to provide evidence.

"There's absolutely no reason to take seriously someone who says, 'I believe it because I believe it.'
"God either exists or he doesn't. It's a matter of the truth."

Speaking later on Radio 4, Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor answered those criticisms. He said: "I think there are a number of people in this country who would like to marginalise religion.
"They would much prefer not to see religion as neutral, but to neutralise it.
"And there are unbelievers who construct their own God in order to demolish him."
Of claims that faith has no basis in reason, he replied: "To believe in God is not unreasonable."


Should religion and politics mix?

The head of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales has called for abortion to become an issue in the general election.
Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor said Tory leader Michael Howard's call for a reduction in the legal time limit for abortions was "a step in the right direction".
And he urged voters to consider the right-to-life at the ballot box.
Prime Minister Tony Blair said there were no plans to change the law but "debate would continue". And he said abortion should be a matter of conscience, not party politics.
Do you agree with Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor? Could abortion issues change your vote? Should it be a matter of conscience or party politics?

This debate is now closed. Thank you for your comments.


The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far:
SUGGEST A DEBATE
This topic was suggested by Al, Coventry, UK
Should abortion be a political issue or a matter for the individual's conscience?



Send us your suggestions for Have Your Say debates
Absolutely not! If we allow religion to dictate how we live our lives we will be taking a step back into the Medieval ages! It should be up to the woman to decide, with a guiding hand from our government, and no input from any religious group!
Riordan Tomlinson, Lancashire, England
I'm not sure where Bob from Portsmouth gets the idea that the Catholic Church is a minority religion from. There are over 5 million Catholics in the country, with 1 million regularly attending church (which is the same number of Anglicans attending church). It is also worth noting that the Roman Catholic Church is the largest religious organisation in the world with over 1 billion members.
Jamie Reeves, Hounslow, UK
The decisions that affect the way our country runs should be based on cold hard facts not feelings or beliefs. This country needs a clear separation from the rule of law and the rule of god. Our politicians need to rule with their heads not with their hearts.
Michael Joslin, New Malden, UK
Religion and politics should never mix. Religion is a personal choice and should never be used in regards to decision making for the whole population.
Duncan Wilkins, Stevenage UK
Here we go, let's blame the big bad Roman Catholic Church for everything yet again

Sarah, Scotland
Here we go, let's blame the big bad Roman Catholic Church for everything yet again, as Britain is one big "godless" society. The simple point is, if a premature baby is born at 24 weeks and someone crept into the hospital and turned it's incubator off, that person would be tried for murder. But yet that same baby would still be allowed to be killed in the womb. That is the cold hard facts and that's what we are dealing with.
Sarah, Scotland
If the church decides to criticise and get involved in politic debate, then it must be prepared to get attacked back and this is something the hypocritical church will not be happy about.
Colin Grant, Manchester, UK
The problem isn't that he has a point of view but that his position in a religious body gives his opinion more weight than it ought to have. If my next door neighbour made the same remarks nobody would pay any notice at all. In a secular democracy does religion have the right to this much air time?
Chris G., Cambridge UK
God preserve us from a country where religious and moral issues dominate the political scene!
Rosemary Seton, London, UK
The Queen isn't allowed to vote in elections or to make her political views public. If she were to do so, it could unduly influence the outcome of elections. I think that religious "leaders", of all faiths, should abide by the same rules.
Rob, London, UK
Cardinal O'Connor has just as much a right to free speech as anyone

Christy, St Louis, USA
Cardinal O'Connor has just as much a right to free speech as anyone. The repeated attempts of secularists to take those rights away from people of faith amounts to religious persecution. The civil rights movement in the US was lead by clergymen. What if they had been silenced by the "politics and religion shouldn't mix" dogma?
Christy, St Louis, USA
Abortion should always be a matter for the individual. The facility should be there but it is up to the woman to decide whether to take it or not. I am old enough to remember the back street abortionists and the damage they caused. That is where we would return to should the Catholic church have it's way.
John, France
It is right to bring it into the debate. It is also right not to make it a party political issue and leave it as a free vote.
J Caruana, Chatham, Kent
This is not a political matter, yes it could sway votes. This subject should be left to the individual who have to live with the decision, and the doctors who carry out the procedures!
Catherine Edwards, Alloa, Scotland
Abortion policy is one of the main issues which will affect my vote. Politics is about the governance of daily life. If we, as a society, don't protect each other from the moment of conception, who will be left to vote!
Clare Ward, London
I reserve the right to ignore any laws that pass that are based on a religion that is not my own

Andy, Stafford, UK
As a member of our great free and democratic society, I reserve the right to ignore any laws that pass that are based on a religion that is not my own. I will not have the beliefs of others forced upon me by the state!
Andy, Stafford, UK
If the Catholic Church rethought its ban on birth control, perhaps fewer women would be in the position of contemplating an abortion. Remember also that the Catholic Church condemns the use of condoms in the midst of the AIDS epidemic, thus condemning thousands do die, while maintaining the stance that it is Pro-Life!
HD, London, UK
Interestingly such debate was not had when the Church entered the political arena against euthanasia. Because the unborn child is unseen, does not diminish its right to life. The Church does not judge or condemn, but it must express its moral conviction on such topics (as did all other religious groups, with the notable exclusion of the CoE), without their teachings where would society be? I am pleased the Cardinal spoke up, keep up the great work.
Paul O'Callaghan, London, UK
The Cardinal is allowed his own opinion based on his faith but that should not be pushed onto other people who have a different faith or idea. It should be a down to the personal opinion of the mother (and father) involved rather than a political party. The only way abortion would change my vote is if a party wanted to ban abortion altogether and therefore remove a persons choice.
Emma M, Lichfield, Staffordshire
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the debate itself, I do find it quite interesting that the vast majority of comments appear to come from the male population, none of whom will ever be put in the position of having to contemplate an abortion!
Jill Wood, Midlothian, Scotland
Religion and politics mix in many developing nations in the world to the detriment of the people who have to live under their oppressive regimes. Just taking that one element of the issue I don't think the two should mix.
Gavin, London
There are so many things to consider when making your choice who to vote for and this would just complicate things even further

Ruth Walters, Essex
I feel this should not be a matter for party politics! There are so many things to consider when making your choice who to vote for and this would just complicate things even further. I am sure someone told me once that only at around 24 weeks gestation can you pick up certain mal formations or syndromes in the foetus/baby.
This should be a matter for the doctors and parents to decide. I am a mother of two and take this matter very seriously indeed. I value the life of the unborn dearly but to bring a dreadfully handicapped child into this world is too cruel. Life is difficult enough! Religion has a lot to answer for. Why create more misery?
Ruth Walters, Romford, Essex
Can't these religious people keep their opinions to themselves. We see often enough the result that their beliefs have in Catholic Ireland with young girls having to come to this great free country of ours to have abortions. So what does this head of which is a minority religion in this country expect, all that would happen is back street abortion with the obvious medical problems or girls taking a trip to the continent.
Before he starts spouting his opinions in the future perhaps he should look at the size of the churches congregations to gauge the public opinion of these outdated religious beliefs. Who elected him anyway?
Bob Bebbington, Portsmouth, England
I think abortion should be a political agenda. I support the Cardinal of Westminster.
Danelia Cardona, Chichester, UK
In an overwhelmingly secular country, religion has absolutely no place in politics. These people don't know better than the rest of us, they are not elected by the population and should stick to preaching to their own and not the rest of us.
Liz, Cambridgeshire
The only way to break the link between religion and politics is to stop religious people voting: either by stopping them from being religious or taking away their franchise. Stalin tried this: the result was not the atheist paradise some people here seem to think would result from separating religion from politics.
Simon Richardson, London, UK
Religion is a political matter. I believe as strongly in my morals, brought on by my socialist outlook, as any Christian believes in their morals. If the mass populace chooses to make abortion an issue then it should be, but frankly, I don't think enough people care enough about changing abortion laws in this country.
Jack, Milton, UK
We need to tread very carefully, understanding that the Catholic Church has a repressive viewpoint that can be seen as un-democratic. Abortion is a very emotive subject matter and needs to be treated with great care. Right-to-life is one side, right-to-choice is the other and these viewpoints will not be bridged.
The Church needs to respect this and not make the question of abortion an election issue, or to try to influence due process by telling the faithful how to vote. That sort of influence is not democratic and is a step backwards to the old ways of social hierarchy.
George Hinton, Twickenham, Middlesex
If politics and religion mix the problems arise of what religions and what issues. Catholics may want a ban on abortions. The Islamic community may want headscarves worn by all women in public. The Church of England may decide it wants to stop Sunday trading. A religious person might be happy to have their religious issues as part of the state law, but would they really be willing to accept the issues of other religions? Draw the line and stop the mix - it will only make a mess.
Ajana Zabel, Singapore, ex-UK
Cormac Murphy O'Connor's statements were irresponsible and overreach his remit as Archbishop of Westminster

Matt, UK
Religion is by its very nature dogmatic and not given to compromise, the very stuff of politics. To encourage religious perspectives to enter into mainstream politics is to threaten to undo fifty years of progress in the tolerance we now enjoy. Additionally, religiously motivated voting undermines democracy by handing more power to the leaders of voting-blocks under their control.
Cormac Murphy O'Connor's statements were irresponsible and overreach his remit as Archbishop of Westminster. Church and state should be rigidly separated or we risk falling into the same trap as the US, leading to derision and policies that disregard anyone who is not a member of whichever particular faith holds most sway.
Matt, UK
I agree totally with the Cardinal. Abortion and right-to-life issues do change my vote and have done in the past. This is literally the most important issue of life and death the country faces. I would vote for (or against) a party depending on its policy on this, and would like to have the opportunity to do so.
Brin Dunsire, High Wycombe, England
Howard is trying to gain the backing of the Catholic Church in order to recruit new voters. He would rather jeopardise the physical and mental wellbeing of many thousands of women in the UK than risk losing another general election. It's a disgusting, cynical ploy that will ensure that for the first time ever, I do not vote Conservative.
Linda K, UK
I am a Catholic but I really can not agree with Cormac Murphy O'Connor. I feel that abortion, hard though it is, is unfortunately an imperfect solution to an imperfect world. You can not ignore key issues that often lead to an abortion and compassion should be shown at all stages. It is indeed a question for conscience and this move by some people to control everything in society is short sided and flawed.
Stefanie, Amiens
I count myself very lucky to have never been in the position where I have had to make a personal decision regarding an abortion and if I ever am I'm not sure what decision I would make. However, the main point is that it is a personal decision and that I would be able to make a choice. I am an adult and would make an informed decision. I could never support any political party that would take that choice away from me.
Emma, Warrington, UK
If we want to limit abortions in Britain, wouldn't proper sex education be a better answer than legislation?
Nigel Baldwin, Portsmouth UK
The right to life itself is surely the most important issue of all. Politicians who deny that the electorate should have a say over the issue of abortion are being extremely arrogant. Surely all voters have a right, and indeed a duty, to inquire how election candidates will vote on the issue. That's democracy - the British people have never had the chance to have a proper say on the issue.
Tom Rogers, Lincoln
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't agree with a religious leader using that platform to make political points. While the moral structure of our society may have its roots in Christianity, the fact is we have a secular political and democratic process.
I totally disagree with religious leaders interfering in this way, assuming that they speak for others. Surely one of the main causes of the problems in the Middle East is the inability to separate religion from politics. Do we want to live in a Westernised version of Iran?
Mark Malik, Teesside, UK
Religion and law have always been inextricably linked: are not most laws based on the Ten Commandments?

Lenny P, Guildford
Religion and law have always been inextricably linked: are not most laws based on the Ten Commandments? Add to that the right of the Cardinal to voice his opinion on the matter, personal or dogmatic. However, in pushing the subject to be an election matter he has gone too far in meddling in politics. Separation of state and church is a must in the modern, multicultural and secular UK.
Lenny P, Guildford
Whether people like it or not, religion and politics do mix. People's religious convictions are going to influence their political views and they shouldn't be expected to sweep their views under the carpet. It's our democratic right to voice our opinions, whether those convictions are based on religious and political views or not.
Trebor
I was shocked to learn that there are women who use abortion as an alternative to contraception. But obviously, if the mother's life is at risk abortion would be justifiable. But all I hear these days is a 'woman's right to choose'. Yet none of them mention the child's right to live. Let's hear a little more of women's responsibilities! Yes. I fully support Cardinal Cormac's comments. Politics and religion go hand in hand.
Roger, Britain
Let America be a warning! The evangelical Christians are in charge, and the whole country is sharply divided over the issue, despite the constitutional split between Church and State. Do we want religionists running the country?
Mark J, London/ US expat
Should religion and politics mix? Of course they should! Everyone, even the atheist, has a religious point of view. To ban anyone with a religious point of view from political debate would be to ban everyone!
Andrew, Herts
Abortion should be a choice for those responsible

Lee, Hastings
The matter of abortion would never come into who I would vote for. Abortion should be a choice for those responsible. Politics and religion should not keep you imprisoned in making certain choices. I find it hard to take that abortion can be considered murder as I do not remember, nor have I ever met anyone who does, my time in mum's womb.
Lee, Hastings
The abortion question is not only a political question, but primarily an ethical one. Why wouldn't a religious person be allowed to contribute to the abortion debate? Because it is a social issue? To formulate the question in that form ("should religion and politics mix?") every time a religious person (cleric or lay) gives his opinion on a social issue is an attempt to isolate religion out of the spheres of society.
John, France
To say religion and politics shouldn't mix is silly. There are many issues that are important to voters in an area - perhaps due to their religion. Our whole calendar and year nomenclature is based on religion for goodness sake!
Martin, Glasgow
The various churches have been trying to present fairy tales and superstition as truth for centuries, in order to perpetuate their influence. Religion now is of only minority interest in this country. It should play no part in the political process.
Geoff, Bournemouth.
It is a somewhat selfish view that no-one can have abortions due to the views of one section of society

Steve, Loughborough, UK
Now that it seems religion is becoming untouchable and not up for criticism for it views the Church is taking advantage of this and trying to mould laws that just mirror their views and not those of the public in general. Just because abortions are available does not mean that Catholics have to have abortions. It is a somewhat selfish view that no-one can have abortions due to the views of one section of society.
Also, what is not mentioned regarding babies being able to live outside the womb earlier and earlier: this does not broach the act that very premature babies are prone to mental health problems and physical problems as their bodies have not fully developed and never will. Just because we can save these premature babies does not automatically mean we should.
Steve, Loughborough, UK
The Cardinal has made it plain that a reduction in the legal time limit is just the beginning. He will not be satisfied until abortion is abolished. It is important that all free-thinking men and women fight to stop the church taking away a woman's right to choose.
Roger Hart, Deal, UK
Without meaning to make a sweeping statement and give no credit to the younger generation, the fact is, we don't seem to vote. Hopefully, the public raising of issues such as abortion should engage the younger generation and actually prevent them from switching off at the sound of taxes, environment, asylum etc. Even though religion and politics shouldn't mix, they do and sometimes start heated debates. Maybe the discussion of topics which directly effect the younger generation or someone around them could be the push needed to vote.
Fay, Manchester
Secularists are hypocritical when they say the Church should not impose its values on society. That is exactly what they are doing when they say that. The issue is not about forcing anyone to have a certain faith or anything like that. The issue is about 6 million precious and perfect lives that have been destroyed in the UK since abortion became law in 1967. Therefore, I think it is a valid political issue. It amazes me how the same people who are strongly opposed to the death penalty for a convicted murderer are often the same people who are up for killing innocent babies.
Mike, London
The Cardinal's position - "a step in the right direction" - is nonsensical. If you oppose abortion as being a form of homicide, whether for religious or other reasons, then time limits are irrelevant. They are equally irrelevant if you accept abortion is a matter of choice. Only if you try - as does the current law - to pretend that it is some kind of medical self-defence - do time limits come into it. Personally I favour choice in what is a private medical matter.
Adam Gilinsky, Scotland
Abortion is about the destruction of human life before birth. It is equally reprehensible to destroy a life before birth as after birth. This should be an issue, in fact the main issue at the next election.
John Scotson, Altrincham, England
Yet again the media is kicking up a fuss about nothing. So far as I can see the Cardinal was not recommending that anyone vote Tory, he was simply raising this as one of a number of issues that Catholics may wish to consider when deciding who to vote for.
Marie, Cardiff
Of course religious views should be considered when deciding which party or candidate to support

Marie, York, UK
Of course religious views should be considered when deciding which party or candidate to support. MPs are our representatives in parliament and I for one would rather that my MP was moral and capable of changing his views on opinions if presented with new information, rather than a self-serving, ambitious, sycophant. I find voters who only vote along party lines rather lazy and narrow-minded. I think it is commendable that the Cardinal is encouraging his parishioners to get out and be more pro-active.
Marie, York, UK
Religion and politics should not mix at all. Religion is a personal choice, and while it may help someone decide on an issue, religion should not be used to justify it. What many people fail to realise is that secularism allows everyone their own opinion, whereas religious laws and politics exclude people. As for abortion, I am firmly pro-choice. If religious people want to be against it then that is their choice, but they should not restrict the freedom of other people to choose.
Matt Wood, Bristol, UK
It's interesting to read people say religion is irrelevant and abortion is up to the woman to decide. Why then don't we go all the way and allow abortion right up until birth? Or take it further - allow unwanted children to die from deliberate neglect if they aren't old enough to feed or care for themselves? Hang on, why not just allow anyone who annoys you or inconveniences you to be killed off while we're at it? How about the old, the sick, the mentally ill... Anyone see where this trend is going! I think it was a train of thought some bloke in Germany followed during the 1940s....
Chris Ransom, Colchester, UK
See here, all the criticism is being heaped on the Catholic religion, when in fact, the state attempts to control and regulate the church as well. Who is head of the Church of England? The State, in the form of the Monarch is. Until this changes, any criticism of a church for interfering in politics is hypocritical.
Gareth, Sheffield, UK
Whether you like it or not religion and politics have always gone hand in hand, if you believe in a certain religion and a certain political party holds views that oppose your religious beliefs then you are not going to vote for that party.
Stephen, Sheffield UK
I most certainly do not agree with Cardinal O'Connor or Michael Howard. In fact I wonder what makes either of them think that his opinion matters in the slightest to a woman in the predicament of having an unplanned pregnancy. The gospel is all very well but it cannot pay for a new pram, baby clothes or baby food, nor can it provide a father to the child if the woman is on her own. The majority of politicians and religious leaders are male, therefore have no business telling modern women what they should or should not do in relation to an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. The current abortion law is fine as it is.
Kat, Scotland
Kat from Scotland spouts the usual rubbish about clergy not being able to tell women what to do. Abortion is all about the child's right to live not the woman's right to choose. Also, Kat, the Gospel certainly does mean that we help poor mothers to buy prams and all the other items she and the new baby need. The current law is a disgrace.
Fr David Swyer, Albourne, UK
The Roman Catholic Church is doing what it used to do so much. Mixing politics and religion.
Dane Marshall, St. Paul MN /USA
The Cardinal is right to encourage people to engage intelligently with issues before voting

David Woolley, London
Whether secular, humanist, Muslim or Christian we all have a worldview which shapes every judgement we make, including who to vote for. The Cardinal is right to encourage people to engage intelligently with issues before voting so that a vote for any political party is given out of conviction and with justification.
David Woolley, London
To make abortion some kind of political football is, quite simply wrong. My view is, and always has been, it is the right of the woman to decide and not some moral do-gooder bleating from his pulpit nor some third-rate politician hoping to snare a view votes.
Shaun Crowther, Barnoldswick, UK
Oh dear! Here we go again following the US once again. This time it's rise of the Christian Right. The so called "authority" of the Church no longer exists and Cardinal O'Connor should just keep out of modern people's lives. Long live the secular state!
Duncan, London, UK
The legal limit for abortion was set at 24 weeks because at the time babies born at 24 weeks always died - they were incapable of independent life. Medical technology has advanced to the point where babies born at 24 weeks are now viable. In effect we're aborting babies that can live outside the womb. Michael Howard's proposals are fairly sensible: 5 months is plenty of time to arrange an abortion if you wish one and at the same time it recognises that medical technology has changed.
P, Nottingham
I believe that the Cardinal's comments (and would believe the same of anybody who made those comments) on moving the legal time limit for abortions from 24-20 weeks is entirely reasonable in the face of new scientific evidence as to the development of the foetus in the womb. If a woman is pregnant, she will know far sooner than twenty weeks, which is four and a half months pregnant! However I disagree with the use of abortion as an election tool. It is something entirely personal; it does not belong in politics.
Anon, London
Christianity teaches tolerance of other's ideas and beliefs. Something, some here, appear to lack. The Cardinal wasn't saying "Vote Tory", he was simply stating that his personal view, and that of Michael Howard, were not totally at odds in this instance.
Glen, Welling, UK
If Catholic women chose not to have an abortion it is their choice, as should be for all of us who aren't religious. It is getting very tiring all these arguments that keep appearing in the news where any religious group tries to complain and impose their views on the rest of the population. Personal responsibility for one's actions should be a matter for every individual regardless of creed.
Ana, London, UK
I can't speak for religions other than Christianity. Politics do not belong in Christianity and vice versa. Or has Cardinal O'Connor never read Matthew 22:21 or Mark 12:17 or Luke 20:25. Or maybe he just hasn't the understanding. If the church wants to politicize its views they must do so without referring to their views as being Christian. Their views and the teachings of Jesus are not synonymous.
Daniel Kennedy, Cumbernauld Scotland
I think the Catholic Church has caused enough pain and misery in this world and until it modernises and accepts that birth control in most of its forms is acceptable then it has no right to comment on the abortion issue. Young women who have unwanted pregnancies are often the most vulnerable in society. I for one do not want a return to the world of Vera Drake - abortion must and will remain a legal right in the UK.
Martin, Cardiff
The only person who should decide about abortion is the woman involved

Neil Rogall, UK
The only person who should decide about abortion is the woman involved - she is the one faced with carrying an unwanted pregnancy; it is her right to choose not politicians or celibate clergy. We do not want to go back to the days of illegal backstreet abortions where thousands of women died. Every child should be a wanted child and every mother, a willing mother
Neil Rogall, UK
If Mr Blair wishes to ignore abortion when other political parties are making an effort to address it then he does so at his peril. I for one will be taking it very much into account on deciding where to cast my vote. It isn't an issue that concerns simply Roman Catholics. I find it very difficult to vote for a party which takes no account of the moral views of such a large portion of the population on such a vitally important issue.
Laura, Durham
What upsets and angers me when the debate on abortion yet again rears itself is the so called 'religious leaders' and 'pro-lifers' have more than likely never found themselves in the position where abortion is the only answer and wish they would realise the decision to abort is one of the most difficult decisions a woman faces and unless they have experienced it for themselves they should learn to keep quiet and not force their beliefs on others. (And before you ask, yes I have been in this position where I made the correct decision for myself and chose to have an abortion).
J, UK
I would say life is already an election issue, but life includes wars, the NHS, car accidents and other things. If the Cardinal is saying that abortion should decide my vote he will find I vote against the party he recommends.
John, Fleet, UK
The outdated and out of touch church should simply mind its own business. It is up to the woman concerned whether she wishes for an abortion - it is her body after all. Wasn't it the Pope who said that women raped in Bosnia shouldn't be allowed the morning after pill or an abortion? Enough said.
Claire, Essex
Religion is a philosophy mixed with superstitions. The philosophy can't help but effect your choice of political parties but it's the superstition that should be kept apart.
Chris, Liverpool
Religion is totally irrelevant in a modern and increasingly secular world. It causes more problems than it solves.
Richard Bagnall, Cambridge, UK


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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7156783.stm

'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Dr Morgan said fundamentalism left 'no room for debate'
The Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan, has described a rise in "fundamentalism" as one of the great problems facing the world.
He focused on what he described as "atheistic fundamentalism".
He said it led to situations such as councils calling Christmas "Winterval", schools refusing to put on nativity plays and crosses removed from chapels.
The National Secular Society has said Christians in the UK have "nothing to complain about".
In his Christmas message, the archbishop said: "Any kind of fundamentalism, be it Biblical, atheistic or Islamic, is dangerous."
The archbishop said "atheistic fundamentalism" was a new phenomenon.
He said it advocated that religion in general and Christianity in particular have no substance, and that some view the faith as "superstitious nonsense".
God is not exclusive, he is on the side of the whole of humanity with all its variety

Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan
As well as leading to Christmas being called "Winterval," the archbishop said "virulent, almost irrational" attacks on Christianity led to hospitals removing all Christian symbols from their chapels, and schools refusing to allow children to send Christmas cards with a Christian message.
He also said it led to things like "airlines refusing staff the freedom to wear a cross round their necks" - a reference to the row in which British Airways (BA) suspended an employee who insisted on wearing a cross necklace.
Dr Morgan said: "All of this is what I would call the new "fundamentalism" of our age. It allows no room for disagreement, for doubt, for debate, for discussion.

Only one in five schools perform a traditional nativity, say bishops
"It leads to the language of expulsion and exclusivity, of extremism and polarisation, and the claim that, because God is on our side, he is not on yours."
He said the nativity story in St Luke's Gospel, in contrast, had a "message of joy and good news for everyone".
He said: "God is not exclusive, he is on the side of the whole of humanity with all its variety."
Dr Morgan said it was "perfectly natural" to have a "coherent and rational debate about the tenets of Christianity".
But he said "virulent, almost irrational" attacks on it were "dangerous" because they refused to allow any contrary viewpoint and also affected the public perception of religion.
This month community cohesion minister Parmjit Dhanda said the UK should "celebrate" the role of Christianity in the country's heritage and culture.
His comments came after Mark Pritchard, Conservative MP for The Wrekin, called a Westminster debate on "Christianophobia", saying attempts to move Christian traditions to the "margins" of British life had "gone far enough".